<TITLE: Text, Interaction and Communities Conference 2: Professionals, Clients and Interaction
ACADEMIC DOMAIN: social sciences
DISCIPLINE: social policy and social work
EVENT TYPE: conference discussion
FILE ID: CDIS06B
NOTES: session includes presentations CPRE06B-D, (CDIS06A pert of the same seminar, not transcribed)

RECORDING DURATION: 25 min 47 sec

RECORDING DATE: 25.5.2005

NUMBER OF PARTICIPANTS: 25

NUMBER OF SPEAKERS: 10

NS7: NATIVE-SPEAKER STATUS: English (UK); ACADEMIC ROLE: senior staff; GENDER: male; AGE: unknown

S12: NATIVE-SPEAKER STATUS: Finnish; ACADEMIC ROLE: senior staff; GENDER: female; AGE: 31-50

S13: NATIVE-SPEAKER STATUS: Estonian; ACADEMIC ROLE: research student; GENDER: female; AGE: 31-50

NS14: NATIVE-SPEAKER STATUS: English (UK); ACADEMIC ROLE: senior staff; GENDER: female; AGE: unknown

S15: NATIVE-SPEAKER STATUS: Italian; ACADEMIC ROLE: research student; GENDER: female; AGE: 31-50

S16: NATIVE-SPEAKER STATUS: Finnish; ACADEMIC ROLE: senior staff; GENDER: male; AGE: 31-50

S17: NATIVE-SPEAKER STATUS: French; ACADEMIC ROLE: research student; GENDER: female; AGE: 31-50

S18: NATIVE-SPEAKER STATUS: Swedish; ACADEMIC ROLE: research student; GENDER: female; AGE: 24-30

S19: NATIVE-SPEAKER STATUS: Finnish; ACADEMIC ROLE: junior staff; GENDER: female; AGE: unknown

S21: NATIVE-SPEAKER STATUS: Finnish; ACADEMIC ROLE: unknown; GENDER: female; AGE: unknown

SU: unidentified speaker

SS: several simultaneous speakers>


<S12> welcome i'm <NAME S12> er from the tampere university sociology and social psychology department i'm chairing this session of professionals clients and interaction and er , er two er things which are not actually tied to this session er one , the change in programme so if if there's anybody who wanted to see <NAME> and <NAME> talking about promoting different forms of participants' contribution in interpreter-mediated interactions they will be presenting tomorrow erm at one o'clock in this same session but tomorrow morning so their their plane was delayed and they they phoned us from stansted airport this morning that they @can't make it so@ so you'll see them tomorrow and er and also er . er what else well i can i can share you this so you you have something to remind i just put it round so that's the new programme another thing , there are one two three four five six invitations to the to the city er whatever you call it @@ <NS7> reception </NS7> reception thanks <NAME NS7> @@ city reception this evening and you've all have your invitations but if there's somebody who wants to bring a friend or two , they're welcome so er i don't know how to @@ perhaps i'll i'll just reserve these and you can come to me after this session and if you have a friend who wants to come , there will be er some drinks and salads and stuff like that served i think , okay and still one more thing @@ before we start er <INTRODUCTION TO ELFA DELETED> <SS> [@@] </SS> [thank you] okay thank you okay now er let's see wh- erm i'm just looking at the title <S13> sorry </S13> so <NAME S13> is going to talk about the estonian particles <FOREIGN> jah jaa </FOREIGN> and <FOREIGN> jajaa </FOREIGN> in telemark- marketing calls </S12>

<PRESENTATION CPRE06B by S13>

<S12> so <S13> okay </S13> your presentation is [finished and] </S12>
<S13> [i i think i] i finish up yeah <S12> okay </S12> yeah </S13>
<S12> so that's five minutes for questions now and comments <P:10> well one comm- @comment@ on 161 i just got interested in that one is it erm is this a kind of environment where before 100 and when when when th- when the telemarketer in 159 receives the turn of the of the client is that turn of the client what is it like like is it erm (detection) of some kind of an offer what <S13> [yeah] </S13> [does] it mean <S13> yeah </S13> okay <S13> yeah </S13> okay and then the 161 <FOREIGN> jah </FOREIGN> would be something like unfinished </S12>
<S13> very finished <S12> [okay okay] </S12> [yes it's] it's really closing up this er subtopic or <S12> mhm </S12> whatever [yeah] </S13>
<S12> [it would] be a in in finnish it would be a <FOREIGN> ni </FOREIGN> @@ @yeah or@ </S12>
<S13> <FOREIGN> joo </FOREIGN> [@@] </S13>
<SS> [@@] </SS>
<NS14> er are you are you saying erm that this particle functions to show the client's lack of interest in in the product (or what is ) [(it)] </NS14>
<S13> [in] that kind of environment yes <SU> mhm </SU> yeah </S13>
<NS14> because it's not they're not helping </NS14>
<S13> it's not helping [yes exactly] </S13>
<NS14> [helping the] the other end [participant] </NS14>
<S13> [it's too] little in there yeah </S13>
<NS14> mhm </NS14>
<P:10>
<NS7> erm i think that i , there are in some of these there is , the the the er the point you just made there's there's too little i think partly obviously you you'll need to work through towards a sense of what it is that should go in that position so (xx) example erm , line 159 in example four , you're saying the <FOREIGN> jaa </FOREIGN> in 161 , oh no sorry you're saying that the erm 161 is too little </NS7>
<S13> no </S13>
<NS7> what's one- [what's the er] </NS7>
<S13> [er from er] one hu- er 165 <NS7> okay </NS7> [this series] </S13>
<NS7> [so what is the] so what is 161 there , that <FOREIGN>  jah </FOREIGN> </NS7>
<S13> er it closes up <NS7> [<FOREIGN> ni </FOREIGN>] </NS7> [er] the topic , <NS7> [er] </NS7> [er] client er er telemarketer was er was talk- er before that er i talked to a one employees of your company and she was interested in the courses i i i offer i offer and then client said s- says that she's er very busy , she can't participate in your courses and we have no time for courses anyway er erm erm </S13>
<NS7> funny i <S13> okay </S13> i i can't see that in line 158 or or turn 158 <S13> now [if] </S13> [turn] 158 is er the , cu- customer saying something client saying <S13> [yeah] </S13> [something] er when she goes <FOREIGN> a-ha </FOREIGN> , the <FOREIGN> jaa </FOREIGN> looks <SIGH> this turn d- it it looks of something more like a pursuit of something that (he) hasn't got , er in other words i think you're going too quickly to the possibility that the <FOREIGN> jaa </FOREIGN> is closing off <S13> [yeah] </S13> [or] too quickly to to the , there are other things about what the <FOREIGN> jaa </FOREIGN> is doing there in that position given that <FOREIGN> a-ha  </FOREIGN> hasn't er hasn't committed to something or hasn't done something or has revealed something or , what , how can [i put this] </NS7>
<S13> [i should] put er the er line er 157 before then then then you er maybe understand better because the telemarketer said that er i just talked to her before , to the employee who is interested in the courses but it is not the client , she works in client's company , and client says that we have no time for courses even for short taught courses we have no time she is busy enough she's er have been attended i- on courses already <NS7> mhm </NS7> so there is no no no no way @@ she can attend these courses and then er telemarketer says <FOREIGN> a-ha </FOREIGN> . <NS7> right </NS7> and er or the call have er from the beginning the the client er , has been acted quite er reluctantly she she t- told we we are really busy company we have no time we are good in practice already we we no n- we need no training and this se- sequence is a er illustrates it's er @for me@ er very explicitly that we have talken about we we have don't time and telemarkets er telemarketer opens up this up again er he said that but i have talked to your employees she's interested in and client says no way she's too busy , that's that's the point in in this er sequence and then telemarketer says <FOREIGN> a-ha </FOREIGN> and clients says <FOREIGN> jah </FOREIGN> , it's closed </S13>
<NS7> okay [now] <S13> [no] time </S13> i guess that the the the the difficulty i'm having is with these you you call these acknowledgement tokens </NS7>
<S13> i don't know how to call them <NS7> [well] </NS7> [actually] er yeah [yeah] </S13>
<NS7> [they're] do- they're doing a range of things <S13> yeah </S13> and they're not acknowledgements or some are acknowledgements <S13> yeah </S13> for instance the erm the ones in 165 167 and 169 are , erm i think anyway er this is a a very brief er so some a- are undoubtedly acknowledgement tokens that one in 161 is not an acknowledgement token and nor in the earlier cases is erm the one in line four of example one and nor is the one in erm possibly anyway in 124 in nu- in number three this , we don't have time to go through it in detail what you got is a- arranged certain <FOREIGN> jah </FOREIGN> and they're doing a range of things <S13> yeah </S13> and they come in a range of positions and and so and so some are coming after a complete turn and some are coming after a turn which is cle- clearly in progress <S13> [mhm] </S13> [incomplete] so that would be a starting point to not separate them in terms of whether they've got rising intonation or falling intonation but to start off with here's one after a complete turn and here are them in in terms which are are demonstrative or recognisably incomplete , those may be acknowledgement tokens the first ones are doing something rather different as in that er 160 you're looking at me as erm overstepping some mark is it a temporal mark or is [it a] </NS7>
<S12> [it's a] temporal mark </S12>
<NS7> alright <S12> @@ </S12> or 161 okay so we'll we'll talk more about it i mean the <S13> okay </S13> cer- , there are the yeah there are a range of phe- <S13>  mhm </S13> of phenomena there sorry </NS7>
<S13> the presentation is there should be about continuous @@ some of them are , thank you </S13>
<S12> okay thank you i'm sorry we have to move on in order to try to keep some sort of reasonable schedule okay er thank you <NAME S13> and er our next presenter is <NAME S15> who's at the moment doing her PhD in helsinki university department of social psychology and she is gonna talk about food biotechnologies in interaction conflicting discourses and intertextuality in conversation </S12>
<PREPARING POWERPOINT>
<S12> did we need a password or anything </S12>
<S15> no </S15>
<S12> oh that's it </S12>

<PRESENTATION CPRE06C by S15>

<S12> thank you <NAME S15> there's time for a couple of questions still <P:20> could you just show that last example once more <P:07> were you saying that in this the you that is marked in grey that the other the first you is different than the second you or did i just misunderstand </S12>
<S15> er wh- wh- what i mean is that er when he says erm more complex respect in with respect to the macro system within which you should one day insert your research well that i would not be able to claim that that you is referred to this you scientist it could be that it's impersonal it's just you know one one shoot insert er but in the following it seems really clear and it seems it is possible to be to claim that he's talking to this you who's of course completely virtual it's you know it's a ghost who's there er like with the two of us and he's talking about er that who's not specified so it is science er sorry it is the scientist but it's very generalised so he's he's not talking about that person anymore </S15>
<P:11>
<S12> so is there a difference in the italian version between the between the ways he's doing the you or where do you sort of get that idea </S12>
<S15> well er , in the pronouns no it's you too <S12>  okay </S12> it's not the pronoun is not it's implicit so when he says er <FOREIGN> (xx) </FOREIGN> your <S12> mhm </S12> your research but yes i mean it it is arguable if these shifting happens before or after so it's true but the reason why i did not highlight that part is because i think it is possible to claim that that's just impersonal but at that point there is some kind of shifting in the footing and there is this <S12> mhm-hm [mhm-hm] </S12> [mhm] okay </S15>
<P:05>
<S12> mhm <P:05> any comments . <NAME S16> </S12>
<S16> er <COUGH> well er your er way of analysing the samples that of of rhetoric er so you you you have many er , many kinds of theo- theoretical back- background persons and books but er er are you er familiar with er er this rhetoric er (parison) type word stake inoculation if there are </S16>
<S15> oh yes (<NAME>) of course </S15>
<S16> ye- ye- yes that's comes very near <S15> yeah </S15> talking about er one professor <S15> yeah </S15> so like that and now he understands better <S15> [mhm] </S15> [it's] it's er more efficient to (xx) than just <S15> [mhm] </S15> [i think] that this that is </S16>
<S15> yeah yes yes er er the whole process er could be seen as a way of er objectifying truth so instead of saying er you know citizens are silly those that don't agree with me are wrong and they are silly because of course er wh- talking with me again that was an interview and he was extremely concerned with his own self-presentation so he didn't want to appear like an arrogant scientist he was very afraid actually in the beginning he didn't even want me to record him and so <S16> [mhm mhm] </S16> [of course in this] in this process of having the first of all the agenda of preserving one's own ritual face one does this so in in in attributing blame and in qualifying negatively people there are all these hedges that are are put in place in order to preserves one's own er self <S16> yes </S16> mhm-hm </S15>
<S12> okay thank you <NAME S15> <S15> thanks </S15> erm i suppose we have to we're a bit behind in schedule i hope that doesn't bother anybody just five minutes <P:06> so next presenter will be <NAME S17> she's from roehampton university <P:06> and she will talk about the use of surrounding environment in aphasic talk-in interaction </S12>
<PREPARING POWERPOINT, P:39>

<PRESENTATION CPRE06D by S17>

<S12> okay thank you </S12>
<APPLAUSE>
<S18> yes er it seems to me like these persons are really skilful in using their gestures <S17> mhm-hm </S17> er but it also seems like very much is dependent on your collaboration and that you e- evolve this together er and i wonder how do you er think er do you think that this is something that they already have just like we everyone or is it something that they develop in a other direction than er <S17>  the </S17> the ones the normal people that er </S18>
<S17> they are 15 and 18 years post-onset so they had time to establish er strategies to compensate their impairment <S18> mhm </S18> i've seen data from ray wilkinson where they are three months post-onset and they don't use their gesture like this , they need more time <S18> [mhm-hm] </S18> [they need] er first of all they need time to to find coping strategy they need people who's are er fully available in front of them to to to communicate with them <S18> mhm  </S18> 'cause if you put them someone which don't want to try to talk to them just because they can't say a word they won't even try to understand it how do you expect them to progress in their way to communicate it's er so they are fantastic because they've been developing those strategy and they've been very fortunate to have er fantastic people around them what should stimulate them and treat them as normal people even if they can't speak they can they have fantastic capability to communicate and that's what one example of er if you have er date a person in nursing home and er their skill is completely different because nursing staff are not as stimulating and they don't have the time or they don't have the skill to communicate with them erm so i think to be as well in their home environment they've got all sorts of resources with them they've got pictures they've got er er anything around them to help them so </S17>
<S18> but but do you think that they develop a special strategy or do you think that we all use those strategies in a lesser er [extent] </S18>
<S17> [m-] my view is we've all we are all capable to develop those strategy er when we were children or when i see my ch- when i see my children i see babies or who can't speak you know when they want something they make sure they point at it and they get it you know someone is going to get it for them if they want or if they don't want something you know they make sure even they can't say no they make sure that (xx) you understand they say no they may not go through i think it's quite hard to develop this skill but i think it's i think it's our survival to be able to communicate <S18> mhm-hm </S18> we have to communicate you go to a country where you can't speak the language you make sure you use your gesture your your body orientation everything you can to be able to communicate <S18> mhm </S18> so er communication yeah i think is er is vital for us human being <S18> mhm [@@] </S18> [@@] </S17>
<NS14> well i tried to kind of erm underline what you said really about your own collaboration in in what's going what's happening and you you said that they need people who are willing to <S17> mhm </S17> erm er consider them as equal conversationists <S17> mhm </S17> really erm and i think i think that is also er skilful and i i just wondered whether you considered looking at it er you're focusing i know you i know you included it but focusing in a in er focusing focusing in on your own collaboration and and [(xx)] </NS14>
<S17> [i i'm sure] it's quite it's quite interesting because i see data where i was just starting er communicating and dealing spending time with people with aphasia and i see well i see now even if i don't have a camera i see how i i understand straight away what they want to say so we develop er expertise into a way how to communicate with them er and if i can do it which i'm not a speech and language (xx) you know er everyone can do it's just a question of be er motivated and try to understand the person so it doesn't require any skills you develop your own skill and your own strategy to communicate with them </S17>
<NS14> but i wonder if it's the same skill that we all have and our conversation <SU> [mhm] </SU> [analysts] would say that you know ev- everybody knows how to have a conversation kind of thing i wonder if it's that if it's that same your speak is the willingness as well it's the willingness to treat the other person as another conversationalist er rather than he's <S17> [i think it] </S17> [just] being sick </NS14>
<S17> i think it's important to treat them as a main speaker <NS14> mhm [yeah] </NS14> [even if] they don't speak even er er do some (xx) how they use as a person talk in order to communicate and actually the way how we behave with them we still use them as a a number one speaker the main speaker i think it's a whole attitude to how you treat them they it is not because they've got an impairment and actually you should treat them as someone not equal and actually they're even more er you should treat them even them , you s- then more time be er er waiting for them to say something because er they've got no difficulty to say it so i think it's a whole attitude <NS14> mhm </NS14> with those people </S17>
<S12> mhm-hm <P:05> mhm okay thank you <NAME S17> <P:08> okay we have one more presentation left er by <NAME S19> , she's from the university of tampere and is it the department of social </S12>
<S19> policy [policy] </S19>
<S12> [policy i think] </S12>
<S19> at [the present] </S19>
<S12> [yeah] okay , and <NAME S19>'s title is understanding professional practice , do you need some more light </S12>
<S19> no i don't i won't use that </S19>
<S12> oh okay </S12>

<PRESENTATION CPRE06E by S19, NOT TRANSCRIBED>

<S12> thank you <NAME S19> <APPLAUSE> i think as it's already quarter past unless there's something really urgent @@ @i i could@ call it a day and we could you know ask ask <NAME S19> and comment <NAME S19> afterwards like stay here to talk with her if that's possible <S19> mhm </S19> er now i want to thank you for all these thought-provoking presentations and we can also er er continue the discussions in the city reception , er i hope everybody has the instructions how to get there </S12>
<S15> oh i don't </S15>
<S12> you don't oh you should have it in the er <S15> you mean [the] </S15> [in] your files </S12>
<S15> in my thing </S15>
<S12> in your thing @@ </S12>
<S15> shown here for example </S15>
<S12> yeah it's the place called vapriikki can i just see so it's er in your maps . yeah i'm just trying to point out the number in your maps it's the number 22 in these big maps </S12>
<S21> oh one more question about tomorrow because what about yours and pirjo's presentation they didn't seem to be in the [new] </S21>
<S12> [er] pirjo said that she cancels [@so@] </S12>
<S21> [okay] fair enough </S21>
<S12> yeah <P:05> okay thank you very much and if i mean if there's anybody you'd like to bring with you there still are these six invitations </S12>
