<TITLE: Politics Seminar 1
ACADEMIC DOMAIN: social sciences
DISCIPLINE: political science
EVENT TYPE: seminar presentation
FILE ID: USEMP01A
NOTES: continued in USEMD01A, seminar also includes presentations USEMP01B-C

RECORDING DURATION: 23 min 6 sec

RECORDING DATE: 27.11.2001

NUMBER OF PARTICIPANTS: 11

NUMBER OF SPEAKERS: 2

S1: NATIVE-SPEAKER STATUS: Finnish; ACADEMIC ROLE: senior staff; GENDER: male; AGE: 51-over

S2: NATIVE-SPEAKER STATUS: Somali; ACADEMIC ROLE: undergraduate; GENDER: male; AGE: 31-50

SU: unidentified speaker>


<S2> er the first argument is that what the relationship between national (sovereignty) of nordic countries and the international dependence , why nordic countries being democratic open society versus militarily managed (for secrecy) what was the need to be globally active in in a search of a new national call , i shall explain how above mentioned arguments is based on the following er subtopics in which i'm going to divide my presentation , the security policy of nordic countries during the sec- during the cold war i will talk also about nordic balance and cooperation nordic countries it means solidarity and neutrality erm nor- northern europe and united nations what type of relationship they have had erm and how one country differs from the other and also finally i will highlight the er northern europe and military secrecy , finally as i pose to and attempt to draw a conclusion erm i will outline the gained prospects of those above mentioned arguments . let's catch up the er topic this cordial cooperation policies of the nordic countries during the cold war <COUGH> don't mistake about it i'm going to er divi- i'm going to call you know on my own bas- on my own pres- er er er interpretation first cold war in which i've been referring since the world war two up to the 1980 er you know i will i will explain later the er so interpretation just keep in mind <COUGH> . er from the beginning north european countries divided western and eastern orientation , since the world war two the people of the nordic countries have been cultivating their own guardiance despite some difficulties that as the matter of fact they come across what type of difficulties what kind of difficulties they came they they they they come across one remarkable er , threat no one can deny it's the er soviet threat that posed on posed on denmark and norway and this has resulted denmark and norway to join NATO after a few years of uncertainty on the other hand iceland (xx) troops were stationed to control this sea line and also er in and later united states were were deployed there er it's own troops just a safeguard the sea line in in iceland , about sweden sweden was non-allied in with the field neutrality in times of war and sweden erm it made clear when it stayed out from the first and second world war er it put itself into a position that it's neutrality no one would have doubted , about finland finland was allied with germany at the end of world war two and soviets thought that finland is posing a threat so it's a double game in which i'm going to look different prospectus erm they actually erm share different characteristics er the five nordic countries but always the threat that was posed on these countries the main threat was coming from the east all the time which i'm referring er soviet union , finland <COUGH> , after having a long negotiations with it's with it's neighbour er soviet union they ended up in relation soviet finnish friendship treaty in 198- in 1948 in which president paasikivi signed with the soviet officials . finnish case if i just to refresh your mind in (mathematical) expression er finland did signed with this agreement er er this agreement with soviet union just because at the present situation there they thought that they can't go ahead without er compensating without er dealing in a good manner or way with soviet union they couldn't do so they decided to have this agreement that i have already said friendship treaty in 1948 because at present it has a direct proportional with the past or a philosophical relation with the past . nordic balance and cooperation denmark norway and sweden established in 1947 nordic balance system to promote just what just er security system in scandinavian er countries here one wonderful politician ole norrback i hope you know all of you er he point out since the end of he said since the end of the world war two both the military political spheres the confrontation between the scandinavian countries and the soviet union has been replaced by relationship characterised by mutual accommodation between conflicting ideologies and interests . in fact nordic security system functioned well because of several reasons er first major forces were facing each other in central europe the second superpowers they saw that er nordic balance is functioning well erm on their according to their interest and that it was a moment that er soviet union and and united states who were grabbing the third world countries back africa asia latin america and spreading their ideology on one hand united states spreading capitalism er and and soviet union marxism and leninism i hope i'm pronouncing right . nordic cooperation er was another step towards social political and economic essence joined cooperation states were norway denmark sweden and iceland who in fact in terms of language belong each other erm if you compare to finland because culturally language er in in terms of language in terms of culture they are very close to each other and n- nordic council was established in the 1952 it was a forum mainly er for discussing civil and political issues nevertheless it might be said that er to a certain extent it gave a picture or emerged a picture of the nordic (creature) as a kind of security community . nordic countries had cooperation with many organisations er last stated example for instance EFTA european free trade association nordic countries were the founders of EFTA with united kingdom EFTA was created er in 1959 by those who were outside er EEC finland joined 1961 and played main role gaining privilege within this organisation , but it didn't last long er it lasted just about twelve years why because er denmark joined to EEC which was the rival of the er er of of of of EFTA and it wanted too to drag all nordic countries with it er to EEC but it lasted er 12 years er but one positive factor is that it created er it unified this within this EFTA it unified er nordic countries which is absolutely er positive er , (xx) , nordic countries had a relationship with with OECD organisation for economic cooperation and development where finland and referring always finland er @@ just because we are here er finland joined this OECD in 1967 , the nordic countries gave priority to the exter- er external external ties maintaining their historical party from before the war because before erm world war one and world war two they had ties and relationship with the west and they did not wanted to give up they wanted to have a mutual cooperation er to function the ties er that they had so they didn't gave up although i will explain later er in my presentation between solidarity which is unity and er for instance er neutrality they were divided in some sort of way although the characteristics of nordic countries where nordic policy was basic solidarity in one way which is unification and on the other er neutrality i will i i will explain later erm let's go finnish policy during first phase of cold war i have said to you that first phase i'm referring er since the world war two up to 1980 . here comes a man actually that i respect very much er president urho kekkonen the most if not <FOREIGN> kakkonen </FOREIGN> don't mist- @@ don't make mistake about it er president urho kekkonen <SU> @@ </SU> he ruled this country from 1956 to 1981 he's the most influential politician ever seen in finland , he invented as the matter of fact er many initiatives one of the most important initiative that it's well-known is er nordic nuclear free zone , it was er it made a controversial er statements as the matter of fact er soviets were very much pleased er er and and they have seen that finland er did positive move toward soviets but on the other hand NATO NATO countries they didn't like it didn't like it they were very much sceptical about that , erm there was some statements that some er defectors from the soviet union er er er er call it you know criticise it one man gentleman is <NAME> er who criticised urho kekkonen in 1982 in 1982 <NAME> was a senior military officer before he defected from czechoslovakia in 1968 when he reached the promised land the united states he wrote a book called who would bury you , this man he wrote in this book he says <READING ALOUD> i have no doubt that president urho kekkonen of finland collaborated closely and personally with the kremlin </READING ALOUD> , i'm just reading this statement that he put in this book he says <READING ALOUD> i can't recall my discussions with the soviet leaders in which they used the phrase this would be better than with er through through urho kekkonen </READING ALOUD> and which is saying what he's he's he's he's posing criticism , another defector anatoli golitsin who was a KGB officer in 1961 on the staff of soviet embassy in helsinki knocked later the doors er of CIA station chief in helsinki again when he reached promised land he wrote a book er (real) lies for all , he said in his book KGB had several high ranking finnish politicians as agents , who the who he had in mind he had in mind urho kekkonen , and this information i gathered er from the book er wrote by john ausland er nordic security and great powers from page 16 to 17 , the Swedish policy during first phase of cold war sweden as i have s- already said er stayed out f- er first and second world war and er (look at this) neutrality er it added (third pillar) of the security of nordic countries . undén line i don't know whether you @have@ or not erm during 1940s and 1950s the swedish foreign policy was characterised by restraint and caution the so-called undén line östen undén was swedish prime er swedish minister for foreign affairs from 1945 to 1962 , during 1960s and 70s however sweden became a much more visible actor on the international scene er this so-called active er foreign policy personified by olof palme . sweden indeed er demonstrated moral greatness and consciousness of world as a small super power as well as full participation er of nuclear disarmament if i just continue about sweden i @wouldn't@ er finish (for) hours let's catch up another topic norway denmark and iceland during first phase of cold war well these three countries they didn't change it er their policy didn't change it very much er during the cold war er they had ties with the west and er it was obvious because of their NATO membership erm . nordic countries between solidarity and neutrality , where the non-allied which i'm referring sweden and finland or allied denmark norway and iceland they were dressed in grey and they are (adapted) a foreign policy stance that closely matched the colour it lay somewhere between solidarity and neutrality er north europe and united nation to harmonise politically north europe er (cooperated) with the united nations by providing a substantial assistance of the devel- to the developing countries they were called life (minders) countries er along with er canada australia and many other countries erm they er provided one per cent of their gross national product GNP er to the er needed ones of third world countries , they wanted an an UN peace keeping operations during the cold war because of their s- outstanding policy , er norway and united nations er if i just say something er norway the first united nations er the first er secretary general of united nations was norwegian trygve lie er from 1946 to 1953 from that er point norway was very much involved er the cooperation the cooperation with the united nations . erm keep in mind that superpowers were you know largely prevented from taking part due to the mutual suspicious about each other's motives because @@ you know they were suspecting each other er if if [if if] </S2>
<S1> [five minutes] </S1>
<S2> er i have 16 @pages@ i will try very much my best erm , norway alone has filled more than 6,000 posts and sent personnel to greece india pakistan you know more than 30 countries including my blood country somalia . sweden and united nations , erm sweden , the increasing swedish involvement in third world was officially described as a way to increase the security of sweden so from that perspective we can understand how very much er you know how how it was an important factor to participate the international involvement in the swedish case second cold war second cold war er there is <SIC> controversiality </SIC> when it was started erm international relations scholar like er fred halliday who called 70s was the era that second world second cold war was started but mainly the scholars do believe that 80s is the exact time that er second cold war was er was initiated started , the soviet invasion er in pakistan is referred that it was er the moment that woke woke up er the second cold war but keep in mind er cuban missile crisis , 13 days from october 18 to october 29 in 1962 when the soviets had installed nuclear missiles in cuba just about er 90 kilometres away from er erm the coast of united states , it can be said and er on my point of view er i will say that the second cold war would have started in 1960s because of that event because that event er it was about nuclear clash it was very close that the world witnesses a nuclear clash on that era . erm okay <NAME> erm who who er nominated the secretary of the navy in 1980 i'm talking united states they talked the first time horizontal escalation and an offensive strategy alarmed people on whose doorsteps he proposed to escalate and take the offensive and this i i've got er the book er nordic security and great powers written . another hot point of of second cold war the northern dimension arctic sea or north (sphere) whatever you say where the whereby soviet nuclear submarine were confra- confronting western submarines also (murmansk) was deployed nuclear missiles to hit hard US and it's allied targets there's [er one very] </S2>
<S1> [last minute] </S1>
<S2> yeah , er there's one very much important topic er in which i find er which is about northern countries and the military secrecy what was the essence of the problem about this er topic the essence was obvious er the nordic countries er had difficult to accommodate themselves in between the military built up soviet unions on one hand and and and the possible retaliation er of united states on the other hand so they were almost in between and they couldn't they find it difficult to accommodate each other there were intelligence game there were electronic war er intelligence game had every every nordic country had intelligence game er i would love to go farther er i'm about at the end of my presentation [er] </S2>
<S1> [time] </S1>
<S2> let's catch up okay , yeah </S2>
<S1> concluding sentence </S1>
<S2> okay , yes erm conclusion the security in general er the security policy of the nordic countries worked during the first phase of the cold war within within nordic balance but in the second cold war they couldn't keep nordic countries couldn't keep themselves to take out that mess that mess i'm referring northern dimension , ideological pro western orientation versus non-alignment in security what's (xx) what it it's (xx) what was the outcome the outcome was str- strategically an unofficial military technological er technological cooperation with the west has been gained which is absolutely very much remarkable erm a democratic open society versus military demands of secrecy what was gained from this argument , i'm not here talking just a single country nordic country i'm talking whole they gained domestically they secured their policy and based domestically result in a search to keep security policy issues out of the public debate they kept out of the public debate er the military secrecy and they made it , erm and finally national security versus international dependence diplomatically it was a search for an international er (immunity) from russian control and they gained they ga- gained they gained prestigious they gained respect they gained everything that's why er nordic countries it's admired we admire it very much we admire thank you very much thank you <APPLAUSE> questions comments please go ahead <S1> yeah </S1> yeah </S2>
