<TITLE: Text, Bild och Samhälle
ACADEMIC DOMAIN: humanities
DISCIPLINE: Swedish philology
EVENT TYPE: conference discussion
FILE ID: CDIS020
NOTES: continuation of CPRE02A, session includes presentation CPRE02B, dialogue in Swedish not transcribed

RECORDING DURATION: 18 min 55 sec

RECORDING DATE: 16.8.2002

NUMBER OF PARTICIPANTS: 25

NUMBER OF SPEAKERS: 6

S1: NATIVE-SPEAKER STATUS: Finnish; ACADEMIC ROLE: junior staff; GENDER: female; AGE: unknown

S2: NATIVE-SPEAKER STATUS: Swedish; ACADEMIC ROLE: junior staff; GENDER: male; AGE: 31-50

S3: NATIVE-SPEAKER STATUS: Danish; ACADEMIC ROLE: research student; GENDER: male; AGE: 31-50

S4: NATIVE-SPEAKER STATUS: Finnish; ACADEMIC ROLE: senior staff; GENDER: male; AGE: 31-50

S5: NATIVE-SPEAKER STATUS: Swedish; ACADEMIC ROLE: unknown; GENDER: male; AGE: 51-over

S6: NATIVE-SPEAKER STATUS: Portuguese; ACADEMIC ROLE: unknown; GENDER: female; AGE: 31-50

SU: unidentified speaker

SS: several simultaneous speakers>



<PRESENTATION CPRE02A by S1>

<DIALOGUE IN SWEDISH 1:50>
<S3> i was just wondering erm there are all these er new female detectives er er , to me it seems obvious that that you actually compare the er er the the bodies of those er new female er er er detectives for example er she sue grafton's er kinsey millhone <S1> [mhm mhm] </S1> [er] it would be obvious to to to <S1> [to do that yes] </S1> [to to take a look at that] ve- ve- very often male detectives are they they drink a lot and they live a rough life and so of opposed to er female detective they don't tend to drink as much and they tend to jog w- which er male er detectives never <S1> [mhm-hm] </S1> [do] i mean they they would rather smoke a cigarette </S3>
<S1> well they sometimes do jog (definitely) <S3> [alright] </S3> [yes they do certainly] do do that wallander i mean he's a he's a er a special case because he's so i mean he's so wounded <S3> mhm alright </S3> and he's feeling so bad but there are male detectives who do do ra- rather well at least bu- but never really well i mean the crisis is the the most important word after being connected with with male detectiveness er , yes but kinsey millhone i haven't read very many ki- kinsey millhone books but i think he she is still she is a typic- i mean they are written in in first person aren't they <S3> [yes they are] </S3> [as far as i can remember] and er i think she's a very a typical exam- example of er of sort of a er a hard-boiled <S3> [yeah yeah (xx)] </S3> [detective male] male detective that has been just you know the image has been just , turned <S3> yeah </S3> from a a male figure to a female figure <S3> mhm </S3> so she could be called king- kingsley millhone <S3>  mhm </S3> and there would be no real difference i mean she could be in fact a man , if you look at her her performance as as a detective as a character in in in a long run i think at least </S1>
<S3> well you might be right [there] </S3>
<S1> [mhm] that's that's that's the impression i've got from the two or three novels <S3> mhm </S3> @@ i've read and that's not a (xx) materials so i can't [think] </S1>
<S4> [can] i take over from that </S4>
<S1> yeah </S1>
<S4> i mean it might be not only the question of er er telling the roles of but it might be also that the whole structure of er the public and the private inside the whole genre has changed so it's very typical to have al- also private life like in the case of wallander <S1> mhm </S1> and and that's also true with millhone or or the er most famous jogger of them all this er </S4>
<SU> (xx) </SU>
<S4> what </S4>
<SU> [(xx)] </SU>
<S1> [it's it's] not a jogger @@ </S1>
<S4> and and this woman from chicago er <S1> er </S1> yeah you know , paretsky's er <S1> [(xx)] </S1> [warshawski] but er co- coming back to this , yes and then then speaking of er the british er fiction er if if you look at let's say some of the new black writers <S1> [mhm mhm] </S1> [you must find] a new kind of a corporeality of of of a a bodily role of the male <S1> [mhm] </S1> [protagonist] who are black so it's er there are there are many aspects but i was thinking of of of of the lack of the penis as far as i remember this novel it was very frustrating that every time anything interesting happened wallander had to go and pee </S4>
<S1> yeah yeah well er yes [but i'm trying to state the the] </S1>
<SS> [@@] </SS>
<S4> [but] but the penis wasn't mentioned </S4>
<S1> it it wasn't mentioned yes that belongs to the sphere of the implied body </S1>
<S4> yeah did [so so it's really implied yeah] </S4>
<S1> [so that's was really yes] and it's always i mean it's always bigger and more productive the implied body <S4> yeah </S4> and of course you can't you can't talk about the explicit body without taking into account the implied body and the and the whole complex so i mean that wouldn't be wise you can't look at one (xx) a body produces as a cultural sort of cultural representation in in in a certain culture it's not enough for me you don't get that much information doing that </S1>
<S4> so the last question er what do you say of er the absence of another er important or another [nose] </S4>
<S1> [another] nose yes er </S1>
<S4> he was <S1> well </S1> he's also lost all the time he , first he pees then he has this feeling that i'm almost finding out what <S1> [mhm mhm] </S1> [what what's] the case but then he gets lost [(xx)] </S4>
<S1> [so you you] referring to the dog me- metaphor <S4> yeah </S4> @so@ yes of course it you can you can think about think about the nose as as some kind of a sort of a radar a- as well in a way yes i haven't done that i think that that's a brilliant idea because in in another novel the the fifth woman the <FOREIGN> femte kvinna </FOREIGN> he er the his problem is that he can't see i mean he can't see what's going on and he gets the five pairs of spectacles and then he's try tries to starts to understand what it's all about with the the criminal case as well so that could could have something to do some connection with but i haven't really looked at how connected the nose i mean in a traditional freudian bakhtinian way to er to the penis which is probably not productive enough (xx) so that i'm sure that's more interesting your way , of looking at it </S1>
<S2> <FOREIGN> (xx) </FOREIGN> <SS> @@ </SS> <FOREIGN> (xx) </FOREIGN> <SS> @@ </SS> <FOREIGN> (xx) </FOREIGN> </S2>

<PRESENTATION CPRE02B by S3>

<APPLAUSE>
<S4> can i ask you to er replay again that one bit the passive active er </S4>
<S3> alright you just say it's not </S3>
<S4> [nominalisation] </S4>
<S3> [yeah okay] </S3>
<S4> et et cetera <P:06> still not <P:23> right so thinking of these er two versions the version the original and and version two <S3> mhm </S3> it it struck me that er in a way the the original is of course the official <S3> yes </S3> way of the way we normally communicate whereas the version two is er would you say commercial the way ads <S3> mhm </S3> communicate but then to er go on from that er we could say that the original one is like the literary language it's it's using the possibilities of the literary language <S3> yes </S3> whereas version two is using er the er affordances of speech whi- which is very very interesting but but then we go again into that is the citizen <S3>  exactly </S3> can there be a citizen [er who is impressed by the (version two)] </S4>
<S3> [exactly wh- what i've tried to do] with version two <S4> [mhm] </S4> [is that] i've tried to of course er make it a little bit more dialogic and thereby er kind of making a little bit more speech like but i've also tried to avoid making the text too different so the er in in in terms of erm of a double textual outline they are still the same in terms of er what comes first they're still the same in terms of er what they treat they are still the same so they wha- what i've done is i've taken a kind of crooked er sentences and er straighten them that's all that i've done there and i i was discussing whether or not i should actually try to make it a little bit more commercial like but i decided against it because i wanted this to be as trustworthy er and official document as er the others and it seems er from the results or the responses that i've got that that that it works that way so i try to avoid the pitfall that you mentioned there because to me that would be a pitfall but version three is on its way er to the pitfall and i wanted it there because i wanted people to be able to actually say well this is too much we don't want to be er er we we don't want to be identified with people asking questions like this </S3>
<S4> right so so another question is er i note er when giddens is concerned whether er this deliberative de- democracy is then only that will change from since there's the consumers @@ [they're addressed] </S4>
<S3> [mhm] yeah well <S4> @@ </S4> i i i'm not sure er either er especially i'm not sure of the of the giddens thing at all but er but but i think that it it it was worth trying to take into consideration </S3>
<DIALOGUE IN SWEDISH>
<S4> in english please </S4>
<S3> oh i'm sorry about it <SS> @@ </SS> precisely <SS> [@@] </SS> [er yes but i mean] you you do have a point and er there's there are some erm administrative units that have actually made er newspaper like er pamphlets so that they try to er whenever they come up with new er er er areas that they want to inform about that they actually publish a paper and er and and and in a kind of journalistic language they actually depict what what this is all about it is not normal to do that er er i only found one er erm er administrative unit that did that so er but it could be done </S3>
<S6> er you said that your interviewees don't don't see the pamphlet as an invitation er do they say why why they don't see </S6>
<S3> yes basically they er basically they they know wha- what's in the pamphlets </S3>
<S6> oh i see [so it's a preconception i know] </S6>
<S3> [yeah s- s- so yeah it it it it's] a target group problem because be- be- because er the administration wants to inform people about the the services but the people that they inform about the services have been in the system for so many years <S6> [ah okay] </S6> [that] they know everything by now and therefore they're basically not interested in in the pamphlets </S3>
<S6> [okay i mean does the @@] </S6>
<S3> [they they they speak truly] i tell you what it's kind of interesting but we know this <S6> okay </S6> and and even the- the- there was er not a mistake but but but there was er a figure in a er i- in the material that said 3,000 krona and er that figure had been changed in the meantime so that it was now 5,000 krona everybody that i talked to mentioned that well this is not 3,000 anymore it's 5,000 so it's really interesting they kno- they they actually know more than my material <SU> yes  </SU> so it's a </S3>
<SS> @@ </SS>
<S2> (xx) right to speak swedish </S2>
<S4> go ahead i'm sorry <SS> @@ </SS> (xx) danish </S4>
<S2> <FOREIGN> (xx) </FOREIGN> </S2>
<S3> well when i worked er er i i'm just trying to find a slide cause i want want to show it to you erm where are we . erm . must be . yes <P:11> that should be well er in any case <SS> @@ </SS> i i i don't find the slide er in any case the the the the same tendency of course is true of er of of of danish administrative language and it's been er kind of dialogised or whatever erm and and the trouble with that is erm er and and when i worked a- a- as head of communications that was the kind of er line that i tried to er follow (is) i i think it's the the right way and i still think basically it's the right way but there is a pitfall and pitfall is that people also expect er the authority to speak authoritatively to them you have to do something in your letters and in your writings that show that i am an authority i can actually say something i can say you must do this if i want to and er and you will have to comply i mean it's very important that we don't er er leave that er possibility out of er of a dialogised language because if we do that then then we just have er then we have the transgression of the spheres then we have suddenly the authorit- the authorities er not er speaking to us in the public sphere but in our private sphere and we don't want them to do that this is public and we should keep it like that a- a- and ot- otherwise we will er we will have problems i think i think that we will have problems with authorities er with er , er creating a language which is not (authoritative) doesn't show that this is really somebody that i talk to </S3>
<DIALOGUE IN SWEDISH>
<SS> @@ </SS>
<S3> yeah you you must er mail me a a a kind of literature list there <SU> [(xx) @@] </SU> [because it's it's very interesting] <S5> <FOREIGN> ja </FOREIGN> </S5> we also have of course er people doing kind of the same thing in denmark but but i- it's always nice to see er how other people do that so it's would be very interesting </S3>
<S2> <FOREIGN> (xx) </FOREIGN> </S2>
