<TITLE: Immigrant Youth, Civic Values and Education
ACADEMIC DOMAIN: behavioural sciences
DISCIPLINE: education
EVENT TYPE: lecture
FILE ID: ULEC210
NOTES: continuation of and continued in ULECD140

RECORDING DURATION: 60 min 33 sec

RECORDING DATE: 17.4.2007

NUMBER OF PARTICIPANTS: 15

NUMBER OF SPEAKERS: 4

S1: NATIVE-SPEAKER STATUS: Russian; ACADEMIC ROLE: junior staff; GENDER: female; AGE: 24-30

S2: NATIVE-SPEAKER STATUS: Dutch; ACADEMIC ROLE: senior staff; GENDER: male; AGE: 31-50

S3: NATIVE-SPEAKER STATUS: Finnish; ACADEMIC ROLE: research student; GENDER: female; AGE: 24-30

S4: NATIVE-SPEAKER STATUS: Italian; ACADEMIC ROLE: unknown; GENDER: female; AGE: unknown

SS: several simultaneous speakers>


<S2> <REFERS TO POWERPOINT SLIDES THROUGHOUT THE LECTURE> okay thank you <NAME S1> let me just er say a few words about myself before i er move ahead with my presentation er i actually i will be staying here until wednesday next week so until after the seminar so you will have some opportunity indeed to er address matters that you feel are important for your own research or your own interest erm i'm er as <NAME S1> said er indeed i'm dutch i i er studied at the university of amsterdam i'm a human geographer by background actually i'm not into in in that sense i don't have an edu- er background in education but what i did do for my er promotion research so what currently as <NAME S1> is doing as well for my er PhD research is that i looked into erm the problem of er er well the role of education in nation building in ukraine er as most of you i guess know ukraine is one of these follow-up soviet post-soviet states soviet s- union crumbled as we all know and er ukraine was one of those new republics arising from the ashes of the soviet union and it had never been an independent state before and as all new states they feel very much insecure about er er the political elite of these states feel quite insecure about the popular support for for this new independent state and er that th- the same er you could find the same thing in ukraine so i was looking at how how these pol- this political elite was trying to kind of stimulate and foster a sense of national identity and how they used education for that and in which which way what what th- the which particular identity markers they focused on in trying to foster this identity and well as it turns out and what we will be going into that much more in our second er er erm se- er lecture as it turns out erm they they are really focusing on language as the key er er identity marker , erm so that is my that is how i became acquainted with a c- er with education as a field erm then i when i finished my PhD i am doing it in bit in broad steps er when i finished my PhD i was sick and tired of academia and so i took up a job in the policy sector erm which is one of those errors you sometimes make when you're young you think that you actually like to to engage in team work and do something useful for society <SS> [@@] </SS> [crazy @anyway@] anyway er it's one of those yes those weird kind of fantasies that you sometimes have er we'll do and (use) something useful for society okay er that that that yes that still has a kind of i'm still to some extent motivated by that concern but to work in the policy sector , well horrible <SS> [@mhm@] </SS> [er] kafkaesque experience that was anyway so after three years i've managed to find a job again in in academia er this time at the institute of education in london so i became a post-doc there er which is something which is fol- following er something er that is following up on your kind of a PhD research and erm i did that for er well almost one and a half year and then i could switch to a european grant so now i'm on this european grant at the institute of education erm thanks again thanks er er european union thanks brussels for that erm <SS> [@@] </SS> [@yes@] so erm so that's my current situation i've also taken up actually a position er as as also a kind of er researcher er er a- at the university now the free university in amsterdam that's where i'm now that's where i'm basically stationed erm in the department of sociology this time erm so i'm as you can see i'm just moving er across various er academic er and erm disciplinary boundaries there's no sense in carving sociosciences up in distinct er disciplines in my view , erm so that is just a brief history er so what are we going to look at er today erm you erm i think if i'm correct <NAME S1> has distributed this paper have you among the students </S2>
<S1> er for the for those taking part in the seminar </S1>
<S2> for those taking part in the seminar <S1> [yes] </S1> [i see] okay <S1> yeah </S1> so and some of you are taking part in the seminar right so you have received a paper and a lots of complicated tables as attachments right good so erm that is the article i'm going to base the er today's presentation on er so it it deals with as you can see immigrant youth civic values and education erm why focus on this particular topic well as i'll be talking as i'll be showing later on in the presentation is because erm recently or the last say six or seven years there has been a renewed interest in in thin- in civic values and we're talking here about er things like freedom of speech er gender equality erm tolerance towards people who have different opinions tolerance towards people who have say er er well slightly er diverging erm er sexual preferences so gays erm it it also has to do with erm equality considering the other citizen no matter what colour he may have or what descent he may have or what what kind of sex he he or she has as as fundamentally equal to yourself so physical equality those are kind of the what we could say are the core kind of issues or the the core civic values er we we may perhaps also add erm things like public spiritedness so kind of of erm a kind of f- feeling committed to not just your own little group your own little ethnic group or religious group but to the whole nation so er to public issues that th- that that er so the the well basically the to to the common interest that's what we mean by public spiritedness and also a kind of , you might say a willingness to erm to involve yourself in these public issues without regard for your own self-interest so the in- the willingness to invest time and energy er perhaps not only in knowing about more kind of issues that transcend your own narrow interest but also a kind of an er er you might say er a- also a kind of a motivation to actually do something to to engage in some kind of say er voluntary work or whatever er for the general interest so these are considered to be the core civic values and erm recently there's a kind of a erm i'll be coming to talk about that more , there is erm the idea is growing stronger that immigrants migrating to western countries certainly if they are from a non-western background is that the th- these immigrants do not have these civic values and that it's also very difficult to for them to internalise these civic values erm and so there's an increasing concern about that and these civic values are seen as supporting democracy democracy is seen to rest on these civic values erm so given this kind of more erm i'm actually already covering a particular sheet i'm real- realising that now but given these er you might s- yeah you might say this conservative kind of way of thinking which is growing stronger which has grown stronger in recent years erm how how erm how is it with immigrant youth and civic values a- a- are they really a- a- are immigrant youth er do they have some kind of handicapped civic values erm and what role can education play in fostering civic values that's basically the er the background to why i became interested in this er in these issues er and erm well i won't talk more about that otherwise i'm i'm i'm not er covering my sheets in a very kind of structured proceeding through my sheets in this very structured way so erm up till now can you understand me all this is all understandable yes if you have any questions just er just feel free to ask right erm . er oh yes this is the one i was looking for the first one so erm before i explain some more about this conservative view on erm civic values which has grown stronger in recent years let me just first erm briefly go through these the stages that we see in the development of theory on political integration of immigrants erm and we can see basically that it started out in the 50s and the 60s with what we might call modernism erm several er well two authors i think can be associated with this carol deutsch and er ernest gellner ernest gellner has been specifically writing about nationalism erm , basically mo- according to this idea of modernism there is not really an issue with the political integration of immigrants immigrants will automatically assimilate to the dominant culture that's the philosophy of modernism so that modernism sees w- we might say immigrant cultures as something temporary so the er and in the f- in fact complementary to the dominant culture in which immigrants er find themselves when they move to the er er country of erm er or to the receiving country the idea is basically that this dominant culture is is is is o- is er makes makes it possible for immigrants to widen their horizons it gives immigrants job opportunities gives them erm an opportunity to to er to be- become upwardly socially mobile we might say certainly if they're from very modest backgrounds gives them opportunity to have an education and er achieve perhaps some middle-class position in in in society it gives them also o- er an opportunity perhaps for the more energetic among them to become politically involved in the erm er in the society er of the host country so it's it's expanding their horizons while then the im- the immigrant culture still serves functions such as erm er we might say providing a kind of psychological shelter for them you know th- because you're faced of course with a lot of lots of new experiences in erm in the receiving society which perhaps makes you feel very insecure about how to er go ahead in such a society and then these these your culture of origin er the family around you and so on they can provide some kind of support and and shelter and so the th- there's a kind of division of tasks in the modernist view with the one the culture of the dominant group providing opportunities and the culture of the of the land of origin providing the kind of emotional kind of shelter erm and as time goes by in the modernist way of thinking immigrants will slowly but steadily er assimilate to this dominant culture , well erm multiculturalism has reacted to this er to this er philosophy so multiculturalism was basically a reaction to modernism erm and the m- the main erm kind of or the th- what multiculturalism argues is that integration is actually will only happen if immigrant cultures are respected and fostered so instead of them fading away they should be respected and fostered why because er in the philosophy of multiculturalism cultures need to be equal and erm immigrants when they're moving to er a new society erm need to need to feel respected and need to feel erm er acknowledged otherwise this they might develop a kind of inferiority com- complex which will may have a lasting kind of impact on their say psychological well-being so the what c- multiculturalists mind is the inequality of cultures and they they they er erm mhm how can i put it they accuse the modernist modernist philosophy of erm privileging we might say the dominant culture of giving er privilege to one particular culture , and so er multiculturalist multiculturalists also argue that through this detour of of acknowledging and respecting immigrant cultures integration will actually finally happen so it's through a kind of detour of of of fostering and respecting these erm immigrant cultures , and erm well er as you probably all know erm in recent years this multiculturalist kind of thinking has er has b- has been increasingly criticised erm for actually er for fostering actually isolation and marginalisation , so the idea th- that so erm , erm respecting immigrant cultures erm making all kinds of special arrangements for for immigrants actually leads to the to the er isolation and marginalisation , and i think we can we can distinguish more or less three strands of criticism , as you can see here er three strands of criticism on multiculturalism erm interculturalism erm and the basic tenet of interculturalism is that there should be a renewed en- er renewed emphasis on integration so one might say establishing ties with the wider society er finding work and so on participating in in institutions which erm cover people from many different creeds many different religions erm but with then but then without the dominant culture bias of modernism so in- interculturalism argues that erm also the dominant group should make an effort to adapt to the new circumstances in a multicultural society , erm , gundara maybe you've have you read anything about gundara gundara it might be s- said to be the proponent of this kind of interculturalism who is er who happens who is a colleague of mine at the institute of education , erm a second strand of criticism is social capital theory erm , in we've seen also that within social capital theory there's a kind of a d- er development going on and that there's a recognition that not all forms of social associations are good for social cohesion at the societal level erm so there's a a distinction has been made between the so-called bonding and bridging forms of social capital and i'll have to explain that with an example but the idea is basically that if you have er organisations in a society that er only cluster members of one particular group then that is or er er say ethnic group or religious group then that is bad for for overall so- cohesion whereas if you have organisations that er bridge er a- across various ethnic groups various religious groups then that is er said to be good for social cohesion so as you can see th- thi- this runs counter this more or less runs counter to multiculturalism using instead of fostering immigrant cultures giving subsidies to say church-based organisations or ethnic group based organisations er in social capital theory that that would th- that would mean stimulating the organisations of the bonding type which would not be good for overall cohesion erm and then the last one the most we might say the most provocative one the most controversial one is the n- what i labelled er neo-conservatism the immigrants to put it really provocatively immigrants from non-western backgrounds can pose a threat to liberal democracy and there's one particular author which you can strongly associate with this kind of thinking and who who might that be would you have an idea , when i say the words clash of civilisations </S2>
<S3> huntington </S3>
<S2> huntington exactly he c- he can be associated with this type of thinking so let's see more in detail what this conservatism is is all about no yeah yes erm i already talked about this actually the so the conservative view on civic culture and immigrants the main tenets the main claims are that democracy rests on civic values , erm as i said this relates to things like public spiritedness civic equality trust trusting fellow citizens even if they are of a different ethnic group or a different religious group er solidarity so erm having er being helpful to fellow citizens regardless of skin colour gender and so on and and tolerance so tolerating different opinions er respecting people even if they completely disagree -gree with you and allowing them to voice their their opinions erm civic values are also seen by conservatives as extremely durable they're not easily created so the erm a very famous book is here the book by er er robert putnam making democracy work in italy erm now putnam is actually associated with the social capital theory but er er well it's er always quite different difficult to distinguish precisely between these various strands you might say these st- strands of thinking er but he argues for instance that erm th- that there is a huge difference within italy between the north and the south is anybody coming here from italy <S4 PUTS UP HER HAND> @oh@ <S4> @@ </S4> @okay@ well have you have you heard about this book </S2>
<S4> no </S4>
<S2> okay well er it's definitely worth reading </S2>
<S4> @okay [i'll look at that]@ </S4>
<S2> [@@] but there's there's a huge difference between the north and the south </S2>
<S4> absolutely [yeah] </S4>
<S2> [oh] you agree okay [yes yes] </S2>
<S4> [yeah culturally] and there are many point of views <S2> [mhm] </S2> [there's] a big gap between the north and south <S2> mhm </S2> absolutely </S4>
<S2> okay well so i'm i'm not offending you if if if i if i'm voicing the opinion here of er robert putnam on italy <S4> no </S4> yeah okay erm , er he argues basically that er civic cultures are all these these i- character traits which i just mentioned have developed in italy er since the middle ages and that the kind of the the the tradition of semi-independent cities in northern italy has stimulated these civic cul- these civic values whereas the very centralised authoritarian type of feudal er kingdoms in the south under i think the normans erm they have stimulated erm a more a kind of erm non-civic authoritarian political culture er in which people er always had a d- had a distinct distrust of state institutions in which they could not feel part of the state institutions but rather seeing them as as as as as oppressive and er so er having the mentality that erm you need to exploit the state be- before the state will exploit you and so very anti-civic er attitude erm so these v- values ha- have evolved very slowly is the idea and are are very resistant to change no matter what happens er economic chaos whatever er t- people er in such cultures in the civic who have the civic cultures will retain them across generations , and er this is definitely what er huntington argues these civic values are seen to be specific to western cultures erm typically the idea is that er civic values have arisen in er er th- er that you need christianity for that or christ- christian humanist tradition and er huntington g- goes further than that he also sees for instance that these civic values to only be to er basically only i think sees that this that only protestantism can really guarantee er civic values but he's i think a bit ambiguous about catholicism but orthodoxism is is is definitely not civic in his his view so erm even within the christian world there are then differences erm . and immigrants yes immigrants from non-western cultures will find it very hard to it- internalise these values well obviously if you think that civic values are durable and are not very easily created they'll also be very difficult for immigrants from non- non-western cultures once you once they have grown up in a non-western culture they will be doomed to have a very kind of well malicious authoritarian destructive kind of political kind of mindset that's that's the kind of the the idea more or less so ergo immigrants from non-western backgrounds are undermining democracy with their authoritarian mindset you know they as they come here to er to western europe what what do they do they they create organisations which only seek to distribute me- benefits to their to their own members to the members of the of their of of their own ethnic group so a kind of nepotism and clientelism and these organisations don't give a damn about the general interests of society at large no they just exclusively er focus on on their own members , that's the er that's the idea erm so erm why has this conservative view become so popular erm , well i think we can er find three broad i could highlight three broad courses as you see here , the rise of muslim fundamentalist terrorism well er as you all know er we we all know about 9/11 about the the bomb attacks in in madrid about the bomb attacks in in in london in the london underground this has definitely contributed to the er the popularity of the conservative view er but also and maybe much more important is more attention in the media to problems of integration erm and now it's certainly in a number of countries certainly in holland probably also in denmark er the media don't feel inhibited anymore to erm to er associate or yeah let's say associate immigrants with er with er things like crime suppression of women intolerance so the whereas 10 years ago or 15 years ago er it was not you could do y- you basically couldn't erm state the ethnic background of a perpet- perpetrators of of crimes nowadays you see that all over in newspapers so you you will read for instance a dutchman of moroccan descent has done this and that and that whatever the relevance of moroccan descent is here i don't know but anyway you see that a lot er so there there is no reservation anymore about erm mentioning the ethnic background of or associating ethnic background with things like er crime suppression of women intolerance of course the whole issue of the the cartoon issue er feeds into this as well the as you probably know the er erm the issue about the er , cartoons in in the danish newspaper which many muslims considered to be very er offensive . erm and well the the last reason is probably the m- least important of the three but there is al- definitely some research which also sup- seems to support this conservative view i've already mentioned huntington well huntington is very polemic and does not really rely on very systematic research but he's just started to argue and er make a point and erm these all kinds of cir- circumstantial evidence but rice and feldman is a little bit more er difficult to crack because what do they say yes erm i so i ca- call it disconcerting findings means er so it means rather erm well upsetting findings you might say or er gloomy findings because what what did they find is they they find that the they rely on on opinion er research they see that actually civic values are quite indeed quite tenacious er quite quite permanent it seems er because er they yeah this is ingenious research i think so they they found that the civic values of americans strongly resemble those of europeans with whom they share common ancestors so still after generations have passed they can still see that say americans of swedish descent , share values which are er or have s- values which are very similar to swedes in sweden even though generations have passed and so also , say hungarians who've moved to to to america or span- spaniards so there there's a remarkable similarity across generations and across er centuries even erm er well as you can see the length of stay in the receiving country hardly matters for the development of civic values among immigrants but they have one at least one positive thing to say it's that the the level of education seems to make a great difference so that that points to er malleability if the word is correct so the the to the changeability of civic culture that's er it is er actually possible to to to change civic values by by education so that's a more positive a more optimistic finding erm <P:06> yes so how did i go about then in my own er research , er what's the time actually <LOOKING AT HIS WATCH> oh yes good erm i er i basically had three research questions erm how strong is the support for civic values among ethnic minorities in comparison to the ethnic majority which factors influence the formation of civic va- er of civic values erm so this we might say already er presupposes a kind of er malleability or changeability of civic values if you consider if you think or if you suppose that some factors might influence that so that's er er so there is something that is preceding this this question you might say is a supposition and how affective is citizenship education in this particular regard is it a very influential factor or is it doesn't it play a role at all , erm , er then my approach erm i used putnam's concept of civic culture to identify civic values and those basically and and er those basically include all the values i just mentioned plus er a kind of erm inclination to to erm become active in all kinds of civic organisations that is also something that putnam sees as a as a core civic value so becoming active in voluntary work or whatever working for the community in a sense , erm , and oh yes i er su- i used er let me go to point four i used the I-E-A civic education survey among 14-year-olds as a data source that is quite a large massive erm er survey that has been undertaken in 1999 and in 2000 erm in many countries in europe actually among erm adolescents er among 14-year-olds and then later also among 16-year-olds and erm that is er er strangely enough tha- the data of the survey have not really been analysed er to to a to a gre- great extent they they have not li- little has been done with it so i thought that that could be a nice dataset to explore these issues because this this dataset asks all kinds of questions about the civic attitudes of of pupils , er i selected five countries so those with sizeable immigrant groups erm i haven't mentioned them here but they are england well that's not really a country but england and wales constitute in educational terms one authority that's the national curriculum that applies to england and wales scotland has a very different er educational authority erm so england and wales french-belgium also belgium is a very federal state er so it's er the survey just included er french-belgium francophone belgium erm germany switzerland and sweden so these five countries and they all have er a dist- yeah si- y- you might say sizeable er immigrant groups , erm and i how can you how can you identify them immigrant groups oh by the way i'm using the terms immigrant and minority interchangeably so those are one and the same alright how can you identify the minority and the majority how can you distinguish between them well i used a subjective er identification question in the survey for that so o- what do you think or which best describes you was was this question and then you can indicate whether you consider yourself to be a member of the dominant group so i'm swedish finnish or whatever or i'm serbo-croat or i'm turkish and so on , erm <P:05> yes that's about it i think oh just b- briefly er the sample was really large it w- was about 3,000 er respondents in each country erm and that that is really it's a really large sample because usually i i know these international surveys reasonably well and they usually go to about 1,000 a country or 2,000 and so this large size er and also in combination with the fact that erm er it was distributed in schools among pupils that ensured also an an adequate representation of pupils from minority background erm because usually in in other surveys what you find is that er the survey is a bit smaller 1,000 to 2,000 and there's er much more non-response among members of the minority group so then you have too little too few members of the minority group to to base statements on so but this this survey does not suffer from that drawback . erm , yes my main findings . i think i should talk slower because i'm er just before i know it i'm i'm i'm i've i've gone through all my sheets <SS> @@ </SS> let's see </S2>
<S1> i think we have a lot to talk about </S1>
<S2> yeah so maybe perhaps it's not not not so bad to be </S2>
<S1> it's not bad at all </S1>
<S2> no okay erm the main findings erm what what did i find with my a- analysis and erm perhaps i could even bother you with a few of these analyses erm and some numbers for a change because i'm i'm not sure ma- maybe some of you are are are very good at quantitative methodologies or quantitative analysis no . i see someone <SS> [@@] </SS> [nodding there] which happens to be a boy there's usually quite a gender divide in terms of expertise on er qualitative and quantitative research it seems @@ erm so erm my main findings erm ethnic minorities are significantly less supportive of civic values than the majority group well so that's a bit we might say this was a bit of a pessimistic finding perhaps because it this this of course supports the kind of conservative view right erm but as i found out this difference disappears in all but one indicator i used several indicators for these to measure these civic values er which is national pride when i controlled for individual and social background variables now this is a very statistical way of phrasing things what do i mean by that i mean that if you , er let me see if i can explain this properly that erm , if you find a difference on say support for women's rights which was one of one of the indicators of civic values if you find a difference then between the ethnic minority and the ethnic majority in a sense that the ethnic majority is more supportive of women's rights then this di- difference disappears if you take account of things like er the education of the parents er the number of books at home the erm the also the test score of the respondent on on er er er there was a sc- er th- there was a test on to measure the civic knowledge and skills of the of the respondents so if you control for that as well if you also take that into account so if if if you control for all these variables the outcome is equal then the there is no difference anymore between the ethnic majority and the ethnic minority so people who are roughly of similar lev- who have parents who have roughly similar education levels who have erm er an equal number of books at home who have more or less the same er score on this test measuring civic knowledge and skills then er th- there is no difference between if you take if th- so if you have people er if they all score score equal on these er variables then the difference fades away it is no longer significant and we can see that well you do that with a distinct analysis d- would you would somebody know which type of analysis i might might be referring to here a quantitative type of analysis statistical type of analysis . er er it's regression analysis a multiple regression analysis and i can sh- show you some of the results here </S2>
<START PREPARING OVERHEAD>
<S1> the blank (xx) </S1>
<S2> huh , the </S2>
<S1> the screen </S1>
<S2> ah yes i'll need the i i switch that [off] </S2>
<S1> [blank] </S1>
<S2> the the red button </S2>
<S1> no no the blank it said blank </S1>
<S2> ah there <END PREPARING OVERHEAD> yes there we go so erm actually i was very very happy with these findings because initially or let me first show you this , this is the sheet well lots of numbers but here you see the mean-difference between minority and the majority and minority and you see here all these er er s- so the mean-difference betw- yeah between these two groups and for instance on women's rights you see a difference of point 48 well point 48 doesn't mean anything but the stars do mean something which means that it's highly significant so the difference between the minority and the majority group is highly significant er and positive means erm er to the advantage of the majority group , erm negative means to the to the advantage of the minority group so there actually there were also civic values like expected political participation in england the actually the minority group er had more say positive answers on that particular question than the majority group as you can see here and s- and significantly so with these two stars but so you see on on women's rights in all in in four of the five countries only not in england but in four of the five countries the majority group was significantly more supportive of women's rights or women's equality than the minorities and er but that er that totally disappeared when i did these regression analyses with these social factors included like like er education of parents number of books at home so i used these er let me see yes expected further education use of state language at home number of books at home education mother education father and civic test score and then you see , you see here erm ethnic inde- identification was the th- that was the erm variable er measuring minority or belonging to minority or majority group and you can see it still and then these these entries only denote significant influence , and so you s- you can see that ethnic identification was signi- had a significant impact on national pride even controlling for all these background variables it still retained an an an a a significant impact erm but not on women's rights you see that blank it's no longer significant and whereas civic test scores are very important one so the higher your civic test score the more supportive you were of civic of of women's rights , erm , let me see er , yes , well in this case , negative values denote erm that erm members of the minority group were significantly le- er less proud of the nation than the m- the majority group well which seems seems quite seems not very surprising right and there were also at least in two countries they did not have the same amount of instit- trust in the institutions as members of the minority of the majority group even controlling for all these other factors , erm , yes well you see also i also used critical stat- or c- erm critical thinking erm as a kind of indicator and there also you see that ethnic identification has has lost er is is no longer a s- er a significant variable affecting er critical thinking , so this suggests some a way to go about er you see this a lot in social research actually er this kind of quantitative type of analysis and erm to basically to support or to refute some theories and to refine them , it's quantitative analysis is is not much used in in t- in a more i- i- is not so much used in a more explorative manner you use more qualitative type of research like open interviews and so on if if you need if you would like to build on theory to developing theory if you want to test theory then you use this mo- more this kind of quantitative type of analysis . erm yes so that was that erm . er let me see where was i </S2>
<S1> shall i switch it off </S1>
<S2> yes we can switch it off yes erm <WHISPERING> (what is the cause of) </WHISPERING> . ah yes so well the obvious conclusion that was that given all all the impact of all these social factors that the cultural origin does not pose an obstacle to these er <START PREPARING POWERPOINT> oh </S2>
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<S2> blank </S2>
<S1> good </S1>
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<S2> yes that the er er culture of o- origin does not really pose an obstacle to the internalisation of civic values erm so civic values may not be as tenacious as permanent as is claimed after all they may in fact be you may in fact be able to to to mould them and to er to and the- a- and and and so to foster them , to to to strengthen them , erm and what i also found was that these civic values are a very diverse lot er because some of them appear to be a little bit mutually exclusive so the more you have the one the less you have the other and this tension you can see particularly er between national pride and and tolerance there's a i i i found the two to be negatively related to one another er significantly negati- negatively related erm i- in the view of some of these authors notably the conservatives you also need to have a kind of feeling or a feeling of proud towards the whole community er towards the nation but that is also they c- also consider that to be part of civic values you need to feel somehow er loyalty towards the nation erm well that that seems to have a negative impact on on things like erm t- o- on tolerance and by tolerance i mean here ethnic tolerance so the the degree to which you accept and respect cultural otherness within the community , and i think that is also reasonably well you can th- that seems to make sense right the the more you kind of erm the more proud you are of your own group the mo- the sharper the boundaries that you draw erm between the in-group and the out-group so that that seems to make sense er yet this it seems to elude many er civic culture theorists so these these civic culture theorists including putnam they seem to have the idea that they c- they they can all go together these values you know there's no tension between them er well there does seem to be such a such a tension and to the point even that i think that er but that i'm exploring that issue in another article but erm to the point even that i'm thinking that we should should no longer use the term civic values if they're measuring such diverse concepts which are actually in opposition to one another then how you how can you group them together and say and and talk about civic culture i think it's nonsense we should actually just forget about the whole term erm but anyway for lack of a better term er i have to er conti- continue using it erm but an important point i'd like to stress here is that it has implications for citizenship education if you seek to kind of promote tolerance and respect towards other cultures erm you would be very foolish in in er in in er i think in in erm for instance designing some kind of programme focusing on national history and focusing on on a kind of er enhancing national identity or national pri- pri- proud er pride as you say erm and er and but still there seems to be er there is a clear tendency in in western europe notably in holland to er re-emphasise things like national history we have recently established a kind of a national er canon er meaning erm a c- er a set of erm subjects that are obligatory that have to be covered in the history curriculum , and it is to my astonishment quite unclear er the the i mean the the the motivations to engage in this whole thing this this national canon er are quite unclear if you read the policy documents so erm they seem to have had something in mind like oh this is good to promote unity or whatever without any kind of research er or any kind of second thoughts on it erm but certainly no research that might underpin er these these these choices because according to my research it it it it m- might very well have the effect of stimulating xenophobia and intolerance rather than fighting it , given the negative correlations that i find between er national pride and tolerance , erm , so er the last one , so oh yes i also erm , er the erm I-E-A study also contained questions asking pupils what they or whether they thought they had learned from school er regarding a number of topics so it's a very subjective indicator on whether they thought er a- an objective indicator of sorry subjective indicator of erm the effectiveness of civi- citizenship education er because they asked it it asked the pupils themselves what they thought whether they had learned something from it and erm but i i used these data to explore whether certain say sp- specific citizenship programmes have may have or or whether they were effective in in in stimulating civic values erm , and interestingly my findings were that they they have and they do indeed have a positive effect but only for groups which are quite disadvantaged socially erm and of course many migrant groups are indeed in a quite a vulnerable marginalised social position so for them citizenship education really helps in in fostering civic knowledge also knowledge and skills and values erm and this nicely supports er the so-called re- information redundancy argument advanced by langton and jennings it's an article i'm referring to but er er a very early study trying to er assess the effect of citizenship education and they they argued that erm if children have already erm er mhm if er ha- ha- have already collected a lot of information from other sources like the family er media friends and whatever er television well that's part of the media then erm if they hear the same thing all over again in schools then the- they won't learn learn much from schools erm , that is what they mean by information redundancy but if on the other hand er this is not the case if the pupils are from really marginalised background wh- marginalised background where their where their parents cannot really or or or know very little about society they get very little input about society and and politics in those cases er the school can play er a very er positive role also in terms of equalising outcomes of course so in that sense the school is very good in in in in arriving at a more equal distribution of of of of skills and knowledge in the society er for this particular er theme then erm . let's see , (where's) , yes and just to end i think the presentation with because i've been talking er about for an for an hour almost erm , so we saw that citizenship education could effect civic values erm but there are two other ways in which education can foster civic values er well logically the level of education er in every survey you see again that er the level of a person's education has a huge positive effect on on all kinds of civic values on trusting others on tolerance and so on erm <COUGH> but interestingly that is working at the individual level at the individual level you see a very strong correlation but does it also work at the society level is it the case that societies which have an on average very high level of education the population at large has say er that 40 per cent has has achieved higher education is it also the case that that those societies are also more tolerant so that ag- aggregate measures of tolerance are also very high in those societies well not necessarily so th- there's a and that's a very strange kind of contrast you know that's er the we might say that's the education paradox so a very strong positive relation at the individual level but not at the society level if you compare societies to one another and th- that's that's very er that's very peculiar well y- you just to ho- just to illustrate that with an example erm , in the 1930s germany weimar germany before hitler came to power was a very er highly educated society in comparison to other societies but did that prevent the nazis from coming to power or did it did did that also entail er tolerance towards jews in particular well not particularly of course so there we see an example of what seems to be er contrasting kind of relationship that er er on on average high level of education does not doesn't have to mean mhm can have perhaps even negative consequences for for tolerance erm so that's an interesting contradiction so it it it means that y- yes you might , you might erm raise the level of education and that individually for individuals that's okay but for society as a whole it does not necessarily mean that raising the level of education which is very much in vogue today you know all the all we have all governments saying oh er erm europe should erm in order to become the what do what is it again the most competitive knowledge-based economy that's one of these lisbon goals we should everybody should have an education and as high as possible and the maximum number of people possible and so on and so that does not necessarily lead to more tolerance , interesting erm and last but not least and this oh and i forgot to bring the book with me oh that's a pity because er erm one of my colleagues at the institute of education is er professor andy green and he is really er his his main you might say claim or his his reason for @existence@ pro- probably even is er to argue that erm educational ine- inequality has er a very profound negative effect on social cohesion so the the more equal the distribution of of skills and knowledge in a society er the better for social cohesion well that's a very social democratic way of of of thinking about society erm so th- the distribution of values might also have er an effect on on civic values </S2>
